Hi Mas

Well......I just had to pop up and say something with what seems to be a bit of a swipe at youth workers! I think that there are a number of complex reasons why some centres don't open on Friday nights and weekends - not completely that youth workers don't want to work these hours. Many of my colleagues have worked hard throughout the summer, including on weekends running a number of residentials and work equally late and long hours during the rest of the year. (including the large number of DofE groups I have taking a part in weekend residentials)

One of the key things that I am currently looking at is that often - as a service led (largely) by what young people say they want - young people are saying they aren't interested in clubs being open on a Friday night or a weekend because that is when they want to go into town and do other activities. (Cinema, socialising on street corners etc!) In fact in one area a group of young people are expressing more of a need for some facility on a Sunday morning (the morning after the night before).

Now - unless we are going to say that yp can't aspire to what they perceive to be an 'adult' social life, or that yp must go to youth clubs on a Friday and at weekends then I think there is more thought needed in to how we engage young people at these times. It may well be that what we are offering needs to be changed however we are still going to have to work hard at developing this when young people perceive and feel that the culture is that on Friday nights you go out into town for a good night (which for many will include alcohol). I'm not saying it's impossible and I know that some youth services are already delivering at this time but for me it is going to take a bit of time to change young people's attitudes, as well as some of my colleagues, towards taking part in youth work on a Friday night.

Hi Hilary - yep have to confess its a bit of a swipe ;-)

A couple of things to maybe consider though.....

- which young people were asked? The ones that attend on Tuesdays already, or the ones that don't attend yet but possibly would on a Friday evening if the option was there?
- What does the wider community want (and have they been asked)?

Its the latter question that I think maybe provokes the most interesting debate about opening hours. I state the former question because I've been in the situation where my 'core' group made it very clear they had better things to do on Fridays - but when I set up provision for a younger age group it was packed with young people that didn't come during the rest of the week (partly I think because there were some parents that didn't want their children out on school nights but a weekend was fine) - interestingly as this developed some of that resistant older core group became involved in assisting on the nights.

Hi Mas

Interesting questions - I agree with the first, I'm keen to find out which young people (and where) we are consulting re opening hours so that we can get a clearer picture of what they ALL are saying (not just the regulars).

The second question does indeed provoke a lot of debate for me. The wider community in some of the areas I work would prefer to have no young people hanging around street corners on any day of the week! (Or in fact would prefer not to have young people in the community!!) If we open at times the wider community thinks that we should open and young people don't want to access provision then who's needs take priority?

PS - like the new layout!

thanks - still working on it!

That does remind me of how much it used to get on my nerves at local community meetings when some people used to refer to just about the whole youth on the estate as "my young people" (as in somehow all my responsibility) - it prematurely aged me (I was only 23 at the time!).

It does stir up a much bigger debate though doesn't it - wrestling between the demands of the local community to see provision at 'problem times', and the desire from youth services not to be 'baby sitting' for the benefit of keeping the streets 'clean'!

I'm wrestling with this in my head because on the one hand I'd accept the argument that provision should be available at times to suit both young people and the needs of the local community, but I think the point you make that some people would prefer to never see young people is really important and something to be challenged (although that alone is a lifetimes work isn't it?!)

I read the initial post and thought that i had my answer in my head, but then on reading the following comments, i did get a bit muddled......but anyway....

Firstly one of the reasons put forward against there being youth clubs or projects on a fri/sat was the fact that young people are out drinking. I dont know about in other areas, but the area im in and the young people that i am working with at the moment, do go out drinking with there friends on the friday night, and from discussions ive had, i can say that even if there was a youth club open that the majority still would be out there drinking,

but on the other hand, there are the few that ive spoke to who say that having provision on a weekend would take away the boredom aspect that results in them drinking as there is nothing else they feel that they can be doing in that time.

During our summer programme, we did work on a Friday and feedback from young people was that having that in place gave them somewere to go to, something to do, and the comments that came up were that certain young people, smoked less, drank less, there was less anti-social behaviour. (still waiting on local police statistics to confirm this)

Also there is a group of the older local boys who have been involved in various incidents with the police, and some young people within that group have identified that they dont wish to be a part of that group and if there were more things happening as in youth clubs ect at these times, then that could offer an alternative.

So I am extremely for working on Friday nights and Saturdays if the need is there, but as Mas said, the barrier to putting this in place is that it is one, hard to find many workers who will be willing to work these hours, and secondly the money to pay staff, costs of using the building, and also building staff. So as much as I feel we need to do this, there is a battle between the need and the organisation.

And as an answer to mas's question - 'What I’d really like to know is what are Youth Workers doing between the hours of 9am & 5pm, Monday to Friday? Is there really more valuable stuff to do during the day than there is from 7pm - midnight + Saturday & Sunday?'

Yes, there is a need to be working evenings and weekends but at the same time, all of the youth workers in our locality team are designated to schools around the county. There is so much work that needs to be done along side the school curriculum, youth work offers informal education in the evenings at clubs, projects, detached etc - that only reaches a certain amount of young people within the area, What about the need for informal/social education within a school setting? Were the majority of all young people living in your area will be?

I know that this is were i spend alot of my time, working with young people who are presenting various issues within school, and also working around sexual health, bullying, culture and diversity, to name a few.....

I think ive lost my trail of thought, but feel free to comment =]

thanks Helen - good to get an idea of what young people you're working with think. What I would say about whether or not opening at weekends cuts down on drinking etc. is that I don't think this is necessarily the correct motivation for doing so - because besides those young people doing those things (and the ones that will go out anyway), how many young people are there that aren't drinking/smoking etc. but just have nowhere to go? And how many in the younger age groups are less able to attend evening events during midweek but find theres no provision on Friday/Saturday evening when they could be permitted to stay out longer? I would think this is probably even more important if you work on the basis that you want to engage young people as early as possible to try and discourage the former behaviours in the longer term.

For the points about school based work I've no doubt theres lots of valuable work being done - however if you have limited resources ie. Youth Workers - is your priority to provide provision at times when there is none (evenings and weekends), or to provide it when there is already some (school)?